Pastor Wayne Robertson allegedly busted for Plagiarism of Red Stedman and others sermon materials plus... many other church ethics and financially related issues!
Morningside Baptist Church Pastor of 26+ years allegedly caught Plagiarizing at his church in Valdosta, Ga.
Definition of "Plagiarize" from Websters Dictionary:
transitive verb:
to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source
intransitive verb:
to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source
From church members:
"Something's wrong when a man can "read" another man's sermon for 4 years near word-for-word, deceiving his flock, not doing the work he is supposed to do as a pastor (study to preach to his people), lie about it and the flock is THRASHED for talking about it. Not to mention that he was approached privately in January 2011 and did nothing to change."
" I am a recovering brainwashed MBC Kool-Aid drunk. I was deceived for over 15 by Wayne Robertson and regime. I can remember time after time when music ministers and church members had a sin that was exposed how they were treated and then banished. There was no grace and mercy for them".
Will it ever be the same? AND....Where did he get his DR. title?
&
" ah...the Grace house...that MBC built for Wayne and Beth's lavish life style....thank you MBC members for that...really...every member ought to go spend the night in the house they bought...did you know that years ago someone bought brand new furniture and donated it to Wayne for his church office?? It was over 10,000.00 dollars worth..for his "Church office"...well it was conveniently moved to the "Grace House" and 10,000.00 dollars worth of new furniture was bought for his office at the church...guess who paid for that...you got it!!! Thanks MBC Tithers...and by the way..thanks for being sensitive to the spirit of Wayne when he gave all those sobbing stories from the pulpit that he was just not going to build his "Grace" house until he had his car paid off (thanks Tithers) and the lot completely paid for (again thanks Tithers) you really bought in ...hook line and sinker...but praise God...they have a wonderful "Grace " House to lavish........" Comment from Blog poster.
Mike Everson ~ the Spiritual Abuse pastor from the Georgia Baptist Convention whom we busted ~ and his buddy Gerald Harris whom we busted too ( was busted for falsely publishing and forced to retract a story which stated Mike Everson had graduated from 3 colleges and or seminaries when he had not ) from the Christian Index propaganda paper and is the Editor. Both have run to his rescue, or is it to his "destruction?"........... Guess the DR. title really makes him special. We have this current Southern Baptist Executive Committee member, former Georgia Baptist Conventions President and Administrations / Executive committee member ( plus many more positions) story.
From an email : " Gossip is WRONG, but calling SIN, SIN has never been wrong. It is one of the most loving things you can do to another brother/sister in the Lord."
Everson, White, Harris, Robertson - some of the most powerful in GA. and we have busted them ALL.......If Baptist pastors don't have the backbone to expose bad apples and won't prune the vines, we will! ..........more exposing to come!
From an email : " Gossip is WRONG, but calling SIN, SIN has never been wrong. It is one of the most loving things you can do to another brother/sister in the Lord."
Everson, White, Harris, Robertson - some of the most powerful in GA. and we have busted them ALL.......If Baptist pastors don't have the backbone to expose bad apples and won't prune the vines, we will! ..........more exposing to come!
Story coming in via Comments ~ read them!
219 comments:
1 – 200 of 219 Newer› Newest»WOW~! Please tell us more. I know this has been happening for awhile.
Sounds like we're living the same story these other churches have lived through, just different town, different pastor. Mike Everson was trained by Morningside's Pastor. Makes sense why all these men run together...birds of a feather...
Somethings wrong when a man can "read" another man's sermon for 4 years near word-for-word, deceiving his flock, not doing the work he is supposed to do as a pastor (study to preach to his people), lie about it and the flock is THRASHED for talking about it. Not to mention that he was approached privately in January 2011 and did nothing to change.
That is as ludicrous as someone robbing a bank and as they're leaving the bank the teller they robbed trips them and breaks their nose. The teller is dragged into court on assault charges!! The bank robber becomes the victim!
I always wondered why since I became a member I was told by outsiders to "Not drink the Kool-Aid." I guess when you get a steady diet of intimidation, manipulation and bullying, the kool-aid becomes palatable. Sounds like the community has caught on way before this dumb sheep!
This is ONE HURTING CHURCH!!!
from an April 14, 2012 2:45 PM POST
To: "A Christian Message to the Cultbuster"
God's Word has much to say about a believer's mouth. You are absolutely correct regarding how serious God takes the issue of our words. However, we are also called to hold forth the WHOLE COUNSEL of God's Word. Let me remind you that throughout the New Testament the church is to be the pure, spotless bride of Christ. This is the evidence of Christ's life in His children. Therefore, discipline is to be practiced in the local body without partiality. In other words, out of the church's love for Christ and the Bride He died for, discipline is to be practiced when there is sin especially (but certainly not limited to) it's leaders. Why would scripture tell us that Elders are to be Above Reproach?
I do agree with you that talk should never be "gossip", but sin does need to be dealt with and exposed. This has always been God's way of dealing with His people. The more King David tried to cover his sin, the deeper in sin he became. Out of God's love for him, He allowed David's sin to be uncovered.
1 Tim 5:20-21 (NIV) Those [elders] who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that others may take warning. I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.
Out of the church's love for Christ and the Body sin has to be exposed. This is done first of all out of obedience and second out of love for the one entangled in the sin.
Unfortunately many of the blogs I have read on this site, details what happens to a Body of Believers when the leaders are above humbling themselves and repenting.
Gossip is WRONG, but calling SIN, SIN has never been wrong. It is one of the most loving things you can do to another brother/sister in the Lord.
--What's good for the Sheep is Good for the Shepherd.
from an April 14, 2012 10:46 AM POST
To Morningside member: If you don't like it leave! No one is making you stay!
We will delete any comments demeaning church members who post comments against the church and/or its leadership and disciples. CULT lovers who push "guilt" upon those that wish to express an opinion against deceptive "Pharisee's" are not going to be allowed to intimidate anyone.
No bullying allowed here! Just facts and truths ~ even if you or the leaderships within these churches do not like them.
"If you don't like it leave! No one is making you stay"!
That is exactly what deceptive followers say,,,,
Hogwwash!
Before post was removed it said in a sentence.....
"I am deeply troubled by the comments that are being placed on this blog, and the way this blog is being used by the enemy to hurt the cause of Christ. Before you post things to this site, consider how your participation in an attempt to assassinate a man's character".....
What about all the pain and hurt a Mike Everson did to those at his former church. Mike tried to assassinate the guys character - and still does - the guy that busted him and expose his deceptive ways.
Eye for eye.......
Mike, Wayne, Gerald, and Robert.....what more can be said. What a terrible history and legacy now! All have been expose for what they are really all about!
P.S In previous post forgot to mention: After the first apology more and more people found out about the plagiarism and were devastated! So now more sheep are hurt because of the Pastor's sins.
We are a hurting church!!
Posted by Anonymous to CULTBUSTER at April 14, 2012 12:26 PM
So, Wayne Robertson used someone else material to spread the gospel?
And that I guess is God inspired and God lead.
Wayne, you are a cheater. If you were in a college or seminary class, you would fail that class.
But maybe you have such a CULT following, that you'll be OK here on earth, but you had better prepare for a good answer for Christ when you are at his feet.
You may think you have gotten away with it, but IF you are a believer, YOU KNOW you will have to answer for this - eventually!
So Mr Cultbuster, are you going to take down these comments by others. They sound like bullying to me. However, I doubt you will because they agree with your position. It is very clear that you are only interested in the truth as you see it and you are not interested in forgiveness at all. Matthew 5:9 states "Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God". There is nothing peaceful about this blog.
I am not trying to bully anyone. But anyone who claims to be a Christian should consider how their actions are going to affect the body of Christ. I understand that you may have been hurt by the actions of some of these men, but isn't God big enough to heal those wounds? Without tearing down these men and other churches. We are all sinners saved by grace (if we are Christians). And yes these men are held to a higher standard because of their position. But it is not right to seek to tear them down in this way when they fall. God is better able to handle their sin than we can. I do not agree with these men 100% of the time. But I also understand that they are human with feet made of clay.
I am sure you will delete this post before very many people read it. But it is my prayer that God will use these words to pierce your heart as the administrator of this blog. Isn't it time to let go of this hatred? Psalms 66:18 says that if we regard iniquity in our heart, the Lord will not hear us. I don't know about you, but I would not want to be in a position where the Lord would not hear my prayer.
These men have failed as Pastors. They have for years deceived many and if not for the Internet, would get away with their inequities.
I have NOT personally been hurt by any of these men, but I surely do know many that have been and were and know for a fact your self righteous pulpit puppetmasters have yet to apologize to those whom they attempted to destroy and deceive!
By who's standard have they failed? Yours! Many have been saved because of God's blessing on the ministry of these men. Furthermore, if you have not been personally hurt by any of these men. Why do you feel the need to tear them down? These issues that you speak of on your blog are family matters that are best handled by the local body of believers. Who is the "real" deceiver here? These men or the one who deletes post that call into question the motives behind this blog.
I know some of your readers will consider me a Kool-Aid drinker or a cult member. That would be a wrong assumption. I am not defending these men as much as I am defending fellow Christians at all churches who may read this blog and turn from God because of their disgust in the way so called Christians behave. You are doing NOONE a service by spreading this small amount of truth mixed with your opinion and deception! Don't hide behind that. I realize that my statements will probably not change your mind. But know that I am praying for you and the churches you seek to defame on this blog. I pray that God will show you that this is NOT a good thing.
YOUR post are the reason we have this blog, to BUST CULTS and their disciples .... just like YOU.
You have the mindset we love letting others read so they can see the mentality of how the brainwashed blind sheep think and are your types are exactly who we love to show as haters of our truths.
Please tell me one lie posted on this blog about anyone, just one.
You have your opinion, we have ours.
AND we haven't even posted the story about Morningside and Wayne Robertson yet....gonna get toasty VALDOSTA GA poster...
Looks like those " Religious Cheerleaders " continue to man follow.
I knew Robertson had it in him, just like all his buddies.
As far as Plagiarism, I knew that most of those within the Baptist Mafia cheated when it came to studying the word and allow GOD to give discernment.
Their actions have shown it for years ....
And as far as Mike Everson, Gerald Harris, and J Robert White....it is amazing that GOD has not put em on a shelf to rot! But their day is coming.
Let the minimizing of his cheating begin.
Saw this in a quote - comment about Gerald Harris article on Calvinism in February....
"The problem is that the article is simply awful. It is rambling and incoherent. It is as if the author simply cut and paste interesting bits from around the SBC blogosphere and glommed them all together in an article, which I am quite certain is what he did.
Frankly this is what my students do and it doesn't go well for them. That this is going out in an official document ought to be a little embarrassing.
Looks like Wayne Robertson has others who love to "copy and paste" He sure runs with a deceitful bunch.
Mr Arrogant gets busted and takes a month off to rally his followers. Boo Hoo.
And he tried so hard to cover his tracks for years.
Mike Everson and Gerald Harris are now circling another church under the pretense of "helping" it. Morningside Baptist Churh in Valdosta, GA is having a problem with the Pastor plagiarizing for 4 1/2 to 5 yrs. After telling a lie in front of the congregation (later he read an apology) he is off for counseling and reflection with David Miller. He will be away for a month, with Everson and Harris filling the pulpit. The first Everson message was a "thrashing" of the church, when the Pastor committed the sin, not the church. ANYONE out there with GOOD, GODLY advise to the sheep??? We could use some encouragement and ideas on the situation. JUST HURRY!!
Posted by Anonymous to CULTBUSTER at April 14, 2012 10:05 AM
Yeap, get ready for a great dog and pony show coming soon to Morningside. I guarantee there will be so much showtime and speeches trying to get those standing ovations Baptist are know for when they get caught red handed.
It will be built as a "I 'm sorry " performance in order to allow poor Wayne Robertson to know he is LOVED..Then he'll get his raise and all will be well on Bemiss.
Sickning@!
I saw this in an earlier post...
Began over a year ago when a member googled a poem used during a worship service. She found it at Ray Stedman website. She read the sermon and realized it was the same sermon she had just heard. She took a copy of it and showed it to our Pastor, at which time he said, "Oh, I've done nothing wrong."
It has taken close to a year for members to become aware of this. When members went to the website and compare the Pastor's sermon to Stedman's some would be word by word, even Stedman's experiences, slang words even some of Stedman's
prayers. (First onfronation was in Jan. 2011.) In Dec. 2011 a member went to an Elder who went to the Pastor. He just passed it off saying he used all kind of commentaries, references etc. As far as we can tell, he did stop at that point. BUT, about 25 to 30 members knew and were hurting because of his actions, which were never dealt with.( I am not sure how many other contacts were made with Elders or Pastor.)
Finally, in March (I think) 2 men went to him. These 2 men had called David Miller to ask for advise. David Miller said they were doing the right thing, good luck.
At the end of the confrontation, the Pastor agreed he was wrong and he would apologize to the church body on the next Sunday night. That next Sunday morning was Friend Day, (had approx. 65 friends present-didn't do it that night because a friend of his from his home town was present to speak about abortion.) he read a statement of apology, wasn't really convincing, but we could have lived with it and forgiven him.BUT...during the invitation Art Harris came forward, whispered in the Pastor's ear for awhile, sat on the front pew. After song, Pastor had the mike (walled his eyes really big) and said now I haven't talked to Bro Art, have I, and handed the mike to Art. (Previous to this Art had been out of church for awhile and had no idea what had happened, so he said) Art began saying untrue things (Pastor never stopped him) and at the same time THE PASTOR HELD UP TWO FINGERS SHOWING ABOUT 2-3" WAS ALL HE HAD USED AND NOT GIVEN THE REFERENCE!!! This was a blantant lie, as there were pages on top of pages he had done! Art proceeded to say we should bow down to him, had everyone clapping about how good, etc the Pastor was. One of the Deacons came forward started to say all kind of stuff, another man etc. The men did not come forward, but thought everything should be done correctly behind the scenes with the Elders.
Two more men met with Elders and Pastor on that Monday night. They didn't realize that a group of men had met outside of the meeting to pray for the meeting! The council seemed to be more interested in that situation than anything else. After a week of meetings, phone calls, etc that Sunday night the Pastor read a statement saying it was more than a paragraph, had gone on approx 4 1/2 to 5 yrs and he should have stopped Art Harris when he said, "bow down to him." Each Elder came forward with a statement. Pastor an wife were to go for counseling with David Miller and a time of reflection and be gone for a month. During that time the church would do Bible study and (repentance?) and Mike Everson and Gerald Harris would fill the pulpit. After services nearly everyone hugged, cried etc. with the Pastor and Elders.
Last Wed night Mike Everson preached Prov.26:20-28 He "thrashed" the church good! Used examples that didn't apply to our situation, talked of gossip, going to those talking and telling them to "be quiet, straighten out etc" The Elders have been flooded with calls, etc. Some of the Deacons are furious. Now this Sunday Gerald Harris will preach.WOW!! I can't wait! He had written an article in the Index on plagisarism and some said it was ok to do it.
After reading the comments on your website, we are afraid we are in for the same thing. We have experienced bullying, shouting, dividing out opposition, no accountabiity in fiances and the list goes on!
And so what are you going to do about this?
Let him get away with lying? Probably.
No one has the backbone to stand up against anyone within the Baptist Mafia!
Well, I take that back, I do know one who has and oh what a fight that was!
we can imagine what all his Ga Baptist folks are thinking.
This is all Cultbusters fault for exposing his issues.
Shame on you Ga Baptist! You better be saying shame on Wayne Robertson!
ANON~ you know who you are~ Do Not come on this blog and use that kind of CULT talk. It shows your stupidity and ignorance. You're exactly the reason this blog continues to flourish and will continue to exist.
I am still waiting on where we have lied on this blog......ANON "Quote it" to all.
1) I left the church many years ago..I have personally seen him on Sunday afternoon go to the copy machine with a commentary..shrink down the pages to fit his little notebook..then go right out in the Sanctuary and try to preach...I remember one Sunday he was preaching through Daniel..and you know that is tuff stuff to preach unprepared..and he did not know what he was talking about..all of a sudden..he "Felt the leading of the lord" to preach on prayer in the middle of his sermon...guess the commentary was a little to difficult to read...on the spot..I was in the orchestra so I saw it...MBC members I saw this personally many years ago..
It is not a recent thing..
2) I would suggest all members to demand..and I mean demand to see all the church finances..specifically the credit card bills...I have seen bills for over 5,000 dollars per month..90% spent on meals around Valdosta and the state...maybe this was included in his allowances..not sure..but I would demand to see the bills from the last 10 to 15 years...and you Elders ought to be willing to allow the church to see them..unless you would be embarrassed for allowing it to go on!!!
3) Does anyone know his work schedule??? Does he come in to the office..like ever...Maybe if he is so "Overworked" ...ask Mr Everson...doing what??? Really...I work 60 to 70 hours a week...I have to be at work at 8:00 am everyday...Many good people at MBC work very hard and faithfully tithe to Gods work...Is it a fair question when you are told that the man is just overworked to ask..okay...doing what?? I have talked to former staff and current staff members that say he never comes in to work..and never hardly even prays with the staff...at this point if you are a MBC member you have the right to question everything...You are the best church members in the world..and you have been so taken advantage of...One staff member begged him to come into work and spend more time with the staff and his answer was.."You have my phone number, have you ever needed me and I did not answer"!!
4) I know for a fact that one of the staff evangelist that preaches there has admitted to being arrested for solicitation of prostitution in Atlanta Georgia...and Wayne knows about this..I am all for restoration.and discipline..but it should be applied equally...Don't recall this man being drug before the church and humiliated in front of the congregation like so many other mBC members have.
Thanks ANON...
ANON you said " I know for a fact that one of the staff evangelist that preaches there has admitted to being arrested for solicitation of prostitution in Atlanta Georgia...and Wayne knows about this"
Please name the guy. This needs to be exposed!
You can even use just the first name and we'll do the rest or email me the name.
buster.cult@gmail.com
Anonymous said...
1) I left the church many years ago..I have personally seen him on Sunday afternoon go to the copy machine with a commentary..shrink down the pages to fit his little notebook..then go right out in the Sanctuary and try to preach...I remember one Sunday he was preaching through Daniel..and you know that is tuff stuff to preach unprepared..and he did not know what he was talking about..all of a sudden..he "Felt the leading of the lord" to preach on prayer in the middle of his sermon...guess the commentary was a little to difficult to read...on the spot..I was in the orchestra so I saw it...MBC members I saw this personally many years ago..
It is not a recent thing..
2) I would suggest all members to demand..and I mean demand to see all the church finances..specifically the credit card bills...I have seen bills for over 5,000 dollars per month..90% spent on meals around Valdosta and the state...maybe this was included in his allowances..not sure..but I would demand to see the bills from the last 10 to 15 years...and you Elders ought to be willing to allow the church to see them..unless you would be embarrassed for allowing it to go on!!!
3) Does anyone know his work schedule??? Does he come in to the office..like ever...Maybe if he is so "Overworked" ...ask Mr Everson...doing what??? Really...I work 60 to 70 hours a week...I have to be at work at 8:00 am everyday...Many good people at MBC work very hard and faithfully tithe to Gods work...Is it a fair question when you are told that the man is just overworked to ask..okay...doing what?? I have talked to former staff and current staff members that say he never comes in to work..and never hardly even prays with the staff...at this point if you are a MBC member you have the right to question everything...You are the best church members in the world..and you have been so taken advantage of...One staff member begged him to come into work and spend more time with the staff and his answer was.."You have my phone number, have you ever needed me and I did not answer"!!
4) I know for a fact that one of the staff evangelist that preaches there has admitted to being arrested for solicitation of prostitution in Atlanta Georgia...and Wayne knows about this..I am all for restoration.and discipline..but it should be applied equally...Don't recall this man being drug before the church and humiliated in front of the congregation like so many other mBC members have.
April 23, 2012 10:29 AM
WOW!
I'm sure there is a police report somewhere...
There are only two staff Evangelist on the websight...once you find out who...i can't wait for you to post his explanation...it is even better than you can imagine...they are all artist of manipulation!!!
Anonymous April 23, 2012 12:26 PM said...
" I'm sure there is a police report somewhere...
There are only two staff Evangelist on the websight...once you find out who...i can't wait for you to post his explanation...it is even better than you can imagine...they are all artist of manipulation!!!"
Ok, I think I can help. Please let us know around the year of this incident... AND Was it S or B ?
Wayne Robertson to preach at the SBC pastor's conference
http://www.sbcpc.net/speakers.html
Thanks for the verses like I said above, you members of Morningside are the most dedicated and Godly people I have ever met...I have been very hurt by this man...and his friends...I can assure you he does not watch after my soul...Here's a verse for you to ponder.."you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free!!"
It is all up to all of you to do what you will with the truth!! Just ask him, His staff, contact former staff, his evangelist...just ask...its up to you!!
man i cannot explain to you how liberating it is once you get out from under his regime. You will see clearly just like so many former members...
Oh boy, this story is about to get even louder. We have some real insight and shocking news coming out soon.
Hang on to your Baptist britches because I know some CULT fed blind sheep that are gonna really start throwing devil darts in Ga. It is about to get real squirmy and interesting in the Peach State.
Ok, this is for a couple who only can post bible passages only. We all know bible passages and on here if that is all you can put as an intelligent comment, they will be deleted. If you continue to post without intelligence, your IP will be blocked.
It does not take much to copy an paste a bible passage, or are you taking up after Wayne and a plagiarizer too.
To the good people of Morningside Baptist Church...that want to criticize this sight....who is being the "Guardian" of your soul....and admitted Plagiariser for the last 4 to 5 years and maybe even more....or people that expose this to you??...to the good members that confronted Wayne...you are the guardians...to Cultbuster..you are guardians
You tell 'em Cultbuster! Scripture has no place on this site, how dare you bring something as trivial as The Word of God to call out any sin that goes on here. The only sins that will be called out are those of others. Hey Anon. Can u take a passage more out of context than "the truth will set you free"? Who are you Al Sharpton?
TO: ANON April 24, 2012 10:13 AM
Thank you for your comment even if it was blah.
What I said was for those that can not think outside your CULT mentality box,
If all you can post is a bible verse without any "intelligent" comment, it will not get posted.
We love the Bible and it context but when someone comes on here and shows ignorance and stupidity by posting only a bible verse with no explanation, ZAP it gone. Why? Because we said so :)
Yep...you are correct..i used it out of context...to get your attention..guess you did not detect the sarcasm because truly the people who put the other passages were a little out of context as well....I really believe you are a Godly person...and wanting to serve God faithfully at MBC...again..MBC members are absolutely great people, I can even take being called Al Sharpton...God Forbid...but I will not resort to calling you names and I guess i can respect the fact that you are defending your pastor of 25 years ..but..whoever you are...call Wayne today...if these are all "lies" go right to the people themselves...ask them...all about the 4 points mentioned above..go point by point...for God's sake...and then you cast your on judgement...you have a right to see the finances...don't you?? How many members have been forced to stand before the congregation and forced to reveal embarrassing things they have done...all the while a massive cover-up was done of one of his good friends....does that not concern you?? It is true And yes I have heard the story that he will tell you..you judge for yourself..but be careful not to drink the cool-aid Maybe Just ask...politely...if that will make you feel better...I know the current staff there are probably scared to tell you...but maybe try anyway...politely...ask them..How much time does Wayne actually spend at the church? Call former staff...maybe they will tell the truth...no need to address the plagiarizing ..he has admitted to this...
To tell you the truth...maybe this does not mean anything to the good people at MBC. Maybe you don't even care...i guess in a way..it is kind of vindication for those of us who have been the victim of incredible pain behind the scenes that these people have caused...for the sake of "Guarding man's soul" ..all the while they were not perfect either...they have personified from the pulpit this arrogant attitude all the while they were just as human as well...maybe its time for Wayne to stand before you people and shed a few tears and say..I am human as well...i need the forgiveness restoration from this congregation...no excuses either..just plain good ole contriteness!! Maybe...just maybe..he should criticize himself...
Thank you Cultbuster! The more you say on this blog, the more you show how disinterested you are in truth. You don't want these scriptures posted because they expose the wickedness of this blog. You delete anything that calls you out. Who is the real cult leader here? This blog makes you feel powerful and feeds you fleshly desire to tear down men and churches that proclaim the truth of the gospel whether it is read from a commentary or not. "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and of fences contrary to the doctrIne which he have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." Romans 16:17-18 KJV
Go ahead delete this, block me and show your cowardice to all who read this blog. The Truth shall set us free from the hate that is propogated on this blog.
Anon..you are only setting yourself up for tremendous disappointment..stop idolizing Wayne Robertson...
Thank you for your comments, now back to our regularly scheduled blog post concerning Wayne Robertson.
This BLOG is NOT about CULTBUSTER, it is about CULT fed churches, members who drink their Kool Aid, and their CULT leaders.
The diversion tactics on our subjects do not work here, but nice try.
Here's a good thought...why don't all MBC members take there vacation this year for...say...vacation...instead of the Bible Conference....maybe Wayne should be required to work all year and take his vacation during the conference...I use to love it when he would ask his flock to take their vacations for the Bible Conference and then go on no telling how many vacations himself....busy man
CULT
ah...the Grace house...that MBC built for Wayne and Beth's lavish life style....thank you MBC members for that...really...every member ought to go spend the night in the house they bought...did you know that years ago someone bought brand new furniture and donated it to Wayne for his church office?? It was over 10,000.00 dollars worth..for his "Church office"...well it was conveniently moved to the "Grace House" and 10,000.00 dollars worth of new furniture was bought for his office at the church...guess who paid for that...you got it!!! Thanks MBC Tithers...and by the way..thanks for being sensitive to the spirit of Wayne when he gave all those sobbing stories from the pulpit that he was just not going to build his "Grace" house until he had his car paid off (thanks Tithers) and the lot completely paid for (again thanks Tithers) you really bought in ...hook line and sinker...but praise God...they has a wonderful "Grace " House to lavish on all those cult leaders that would come through town...in case you are wondering..nothing wrong with a preacher having a great house...be nice if he earned a little of it instead of totally manipulating the congregation into practically buying it for him...and NEVER WORKING for it!!
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of THE LORD is THE BEGINNING of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom AND instruction.
This would explain why Bible verse's are deleted off.
Job 24:13
They are of those that rebel against the light; they know not the ways thereof, nor ABIDE in the paths thereof.
Hey Cultbuster, your Baptist Beware list is right on.
I would add a few more but it is pretty dang close to the same ones I know to watch out for.
Thanks for your exposing these Pharassssieeeesssss!
Cultbuster,
In response to your unintelligible accusation. I take offense, never mind what you think of our leaders, that you call posting if scripture as unintelligent.
He who speaks truth declares righteousness, But a false witness, deceit. Proverbs 12:17 (NKJV)
In regards to "taking after Wayne", The Bible tells us the following:
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:16, 17 (NKJV)
But even if you should suffer for righteousness sake, you are blessed. And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled. But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed. For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. 1 Peter 3:14-17 (NKJV)
Believers, whether you attend MBC or NOT - Take firm hold of instruction, do not let go; Keep her, for she is your life. Do not enter the path of the wicked, And do not walk in the way of evil.
Proverbs 4:13, 14 (NKJV)
Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:31, 32 (NKJV)
Cultbuster, let the bitterness go...praying for you.
Along with vacations, Wayne also has a double standard in regards to attending movies. Apparently it is ok to go when out of town. Or is it just ok for you Wayne? If you deny it Wayne, either you are a liar or your daughters are.
Deny, Deny Deny. Cult leaders and members tactic #5
Morningside members - WAKE UP!
Anon above - do you have children? If you do, do they always do what you tell them to?
I think it is showing a lack of integrity and character to throw his daughters into this blog. Shall we call your children into question?
I don't have any children, but I can give an account that I always didn't do as my parents instructed.
Show some character and let's leave everyone's children out of this.
Mr/Mrs Anonymous
Can you post all the tactics? I want to make sure I don't miss any. :)
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1 (NKJV)
To those that need help exposing CULTS and their leadership. Do you know the story on Warren Jeffs? His nephew Brett is the one who exposed his uncle but it took his brother killing himself and his other brother seriously on drugs and in and out of rehab before he saw he HAD to expose this man and stop his CULT. I know him and have communicated with him. It takes someone with knowledge and a backbone to stand up against these types of Pharisee's. They know people have the love for Christ and would never confront " a man of GOD"~ only problem being is they are totally opposite.
You that have been abused really need to tell your whole story and get it out of your system. I know it has to be horrible keeping all this inside for years!
You would be surprised how many will follow you and do the same and tell there stories. CULTS and their leaders need to be exposed.
And to those preaching to me, forget it. I have a personal relationship with Christ and that is all I need. No bitterness, I assure you, just busting CULTS.
Love this CULTBUSTER.......
And to those preaching to me, forget it. I have a personal relationship with Christ and that is all I need. No bitterness, I assure you, just busting CULTS.
More of the BUSTING CULTS please.
I am a recovering brainwashed MBC Kool-Aid drunk. I was deceived for over 15 by Wayne Robertson and regime. I can remember time after time when music ministers and church members had a sin that was exposed how they were treated and then banished. There was no grace and mercy for them.
Thank God that now I'm out, I can see clearly that the gospel is all about GRACE and MERCY not law and condemnation. None of us are perfect that is why Jesus had to die for our sins. MBC needs to lose their pharisee ways and really study grace.
As a sinner I will not pass judgement on anyone elses sin-- This is the One thing that I learned at Morningside!
Love to all the Morningsiders during this difficult time.
What troubles?
We love it that all you troublemakers are gone!
We don't believe anything past members are saying. You are just a bunch of troubled humans.
Now, take that!
The trouble is-- you don't see your troubles!!! If that makes sense, but it probably won't to you, because you are Pounding the Kool Aid!!! You are not alone, I still have family their that we are praying for!!! It is that self righteousness and condemnation. That is how you can tell that this person is a true Morningsider! It's not your fault though, this is what you have been indoctrinated with for at least 3 times per week for how ever long you have been going. I probably know you and you probably know me. Heck we may be related by the sound of your tone (sounds familiar).
In my previous post at 3:37 I meant to say that is the one thing I learned from leaving Morninside!
One day when you leave you will see the true message of Christ.
I can hear all the Robertson Cheerleaders now speaking evil about this post.
I was at a church once when someone busted our pastor for having an affair on the internet.
They say things to discourage anyone from seeing truths on a website like ~ the website is tainted or full of virus. They will say things like the Police are "investigating" or that they will even tell ball face lies to discourage the real truth from getting told.
At least that is what our former pastor did and come to find out the blog site was almost 100% correct!
This site looks very believable and shows proof and puts teeth into what is being reported.
Nice job! Keep busting them!
To all I am a former member of Morningside left there for reasons of moving to another state. I have been in numerous churches and Wayne could not just stand and read a sermon and preach like he preached. I have done public speaking it is not that easy.
Lets all remember these folks can hide their identity and I have not seen a lick of evidence in any of the accusations. If you can prove anything your saying you would be willing to come from behind anonimity and prove what you are saying. I caution all I have looked this site over and the only things I can find evidence of is the fact these folks he is attacking all beleive the Doctrines of Grace. If that is a sin I am guilty. Folks this will not be here long it will be removed. But just think about the fact all of this is based on charges from folks without names. I am proud to say I am Neil Camp. Many of you will know me. I hate to see this happen to any church. This anti=Biblicval format to conduct church business. I watch as folks bring stuff out that they can't prove. By the way if you are a tither at MBC you can look at the books anytime.
Neil, the plagerism has been proven and admitted to by Wayne himself. Sermon tapes were pulled and compared with the oRay Stedman website. Even a prayer was plagerized. The men who are exposing this are not troublemakers but rather men of integrety and respect. You would even say so because you know them. As for this website, I think it's not the best avenue for this, but it is a result of Wayne's refusal to repent and the Elder's lack of response initially.
Please. If you are a member of Morningside, or if you are a member of another congregation, please pray for those of us that are effected by this situation. When a pastor fails his congregation to this degree it could easily shipwreck the faith of some. When I question whether or not there are any men of true character left in the church, I remember the men that are enduring being called troublemakers and being wrongly accused of sowing discord among their brethren. I am thankful for the men that have put their reputations on the line to correct this situation. I am honored to call you my brothers.
Well Mr Willis this is definetly the wrong place giving credence to this website. The plagerism if it has been proved that should be addressed but there are numerous other accusations being made. Folks these issues need to be brought in front of the church. I have been gone a couple of years but when I left there and this would have been during that period he was preaching with conviction. I sure hope folks will either say it in with names or stop the rash accusations.
Neil how did u come to find this website and why did you read it?
I work in the Computer world.
To Neil and ALL others:
Nothing on this blog will be removed UNLESS we are notified that it is NOT the truth. Then, as our standard practice, a retraction can take place.
To date NOTHING we have posted has been refuted or disputed.
We have records, proofs, and witnesses to all facts on all
post, otherwise we wouldn't post.
Threats and intimidation will not work here.
If anything is posted wrong anyone can let us know what the real truths are here and we respond.
It is that simple. We don't lie!
Why do the opposition of the church leaders always bring up the "who is doing this" question vs why the Pastor has done what he has done.
That is so strange. Why do people like Neil Camp ( if this is really him) always protect the wrong sides?
I am not trying to protect the wrong side. My only point is this needs to be handled in the church. You don't want your family's dirty underwear on the line. And this is really Neil. I f you know who I am it is very easy to contact me outside of here. I am making my last post here. My only statement is folks church business needs to be handled like the Bible says.
This is exactly why the local church should handle all situations biblical. It is when men like this misuses his calling that gets them exposed.
No church is perfect and neither is its people, but when you abuse the foundation and its people within, expect opposition and rebuttal.
Besides, if a " real " God called man really has a testimony and is truly Christ centered and mission minded he would NEVER want to or even allow himself to keep contained his messages for 26 plus years in one location. He would do as Christ commanded, and go.......
....Unless he only plagiarizes and likes all the perks received while be a planted marketer of certain seminaries and their Calvinistic material!
Thank you Ga Blogger! Keep posting it helps to give evidence to your stupidity. Do you know anything of historic Christianity?
You said:" Besides, if a " real " God called man really has a testimony and is truly Christ centered and mission minded he would NEVER want to or even allow himself to keep contained his messages for 26 plus years in one location. He would do as Christ commanded, and go......."
Have you read about men who have given their life to a people group. You guys are amazing--if a guy moves around he is "hiding" or he is in it "for the money" but if he stays he ignores a command to go. Between comments like this, statements attacking early church theologians and encouragement to leave the baptist church to join Church of Christ! I think the Cult Buster is a Cult Pusher! Please keep it up, you scream your biblical ignorance. You are Dr. Robertson's greatest ally!
ANON May 1, 2012 3:36 PM
There it is again. Cheerleaders and Supporters of the deceitful and exposed diverting the real facts.
Fact are as stated.
Looks like those men in the swamps of south Ga have a real smooth operation going.
I don't think you want to get into a debate with any GA Blogger about what is happening in Georgia.
It is a state in turmoil.
And as far as screams, you men followers scream CULT lovers!
I'm not a member but I am saved, I pray for the members of Morningside & Pastor Wayne. The Devil is hard at work but my Lord is greater than any chaos he can do...
Yeah, church members and so called christians can be some of the meanest and deceptive " Devils."
Pray hard for those you support and all other toss the aside, right.
When will we see "evidence" of these accusations? Also more info about the supposed doctorate.
He admitted to plagiarizing entire sermons for years. What more evidence do you need? Many people printed them out and knew his jokes before he told them. The elders need to tell the whole story because part of the church knows and part do not. The ones that do not, are shunning the ones who know. No one wants to destroy him, just true repentance.
Those poor blind sheep. Hey Morningside Baptist Church in Valdosta Ga., God will not send you to HEll for standing up against deceptive men and Pharisee's.
Get nose to nose with these men and clean up this junk before you become another laughing stock within the denomination.
It is hard to get another pastor to come clean up a mess once someone
has destroy the community.
Ask Mike Everson's old church in Atlanta. They still are cleaning up Mike Everson mess some 5 years later.
Now get busy!
CULT
It was very hard to associate Bro. Wayne with these plagiarizing accusations but he has since admitted it. It is truly heartbreaking and extremely disappointing. It makes one wonder if he can ever truly be believed again. How would one know if the sermons he preaches again are his or ripped off from someone else?? How could he deceive his flock for 4 years?
I believe this is the reason why "things" have changed so much at church in the last few years. If the leadership is cold and aloof (not just the preacher but ALL THE LEADERSHP) that will become the norm. It is no longer, nor has it been in a very long while, welcome to friendly Morningside Baptist Church. So very sad. Please pray for our church and leadership.
The Bible teaches us to forgive and I know we have to forgive him. But...he has lost his testimony. He has preached many times to us on protecting your testimony. I agree with the statement above-we will always wonder if what he is preaching is from God or some other preacher. How can you grow in the Lord that way. What a disappointment this has truly been.
The Bible teaches us to forgive and I know we have to forgive him. But...he has lost his testimony. He has preached many times to us on protecting your testimony. I agree with the statement above-we will always wonder if what he is preaching is from God or some other preacher. How can you grow in the Lord that way. What a disappointment this has truly been.
The above two statements are very true and sum up the feelings of most members that I've spoken with.
Also, don't forget about "Miss" Beth. I think she has some things to answer for also. And if you are a member at MBC you'll know what I'm talking about.
Excuse me Mr. Anon above.
Mighty bold statement my friend about Ms. Beth.
Mighty cowardice to go on the attack of a man's wife. Not only cowardice, but down right disgusting. A very "brave" man to post under an anonymous title knowing the repercussions if he was to use his real name.
You should turn in your man card.
However, if this is a woman, very sad. I apologize for being on the attack. But it's still very sad.
I know I'm not perfect and by no means whatsoever think they are guiltless or w/o sin. But like The Bible says in John 8:7, "So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first."
Let's once again re-examine our lives before we present ourselves as pure and holy in what we're doing.
What else would you expect from a RAT pack?
Everson, White, Robertson, Harris ~ oh my.
Morningside members are stupid if they allow this man to continue now that he has cheated.
Just like Mike Everson after his fiasco, Robert White probably already has a job waiting for him in the palace and Gerald Harris has a great column in his propaganda paper lying about Robertson's qualifications.
To HELL with them all!
Again, thank you for continuing to talk and reveal your wickedness by your words.
I would encourage all that can to watch the way the two sides talk in every part of this blog. One is filled with venom and hatred and tearing down. And when even soft rebuke is given it is responded to that we are idiots, Kool-Aid drinkers, idiots or whatever else. If what we say doesn't work let's attack you.
Here is what I can tell you. Every church mentioned is helped in the long run when people who desire to destroy and scatter sheep leave. We have know many of these men for 10,15,20 years and one coward who hosts a blog has credibility. Do you know how many basement nerds can host blogs and sound brilliant. Want to talk about weak minded!
Thank you. Next comment please.
Those within the Baptist Mafia sure have some wicked followers and hateful disciples.
If you go to Wayne Robertson's church now and follow under his leaderships ....you're just plain stupid and ignorant!
His legacy has been written and it is not good!
You tell 'em Cultbuster!! Almost as dumb as calling yourself Cultbuster then putting a link up to encourage people to attend Church Of Christ! Look on the right side of this blog on leaving the Baptist Church.
We are idiots? Can you spell doctrine? Wonder who has articulated the truth of the Gospel more you and your Church of Christ friends or Wayne Robertson. I promise you, a copied form of Ray Steadman's sermons can lead many more to Christ than baptismal regeneration teaching. If you don't know what that big ole word means try google or your Church Of Christ. Speaking of an idiot....
Facts are Facts.
Mike Everson, Sam Cathey, Wayne Robertson, J Robert White, Gerald Harris, Emir Caner.....
All have been busted and have shown what they are all about over the years.
People who follow men like these ARE stupid and IGNORANT!
Blind sheep need not read blogs like these because they will get the truths about Pharisee's.
I hope to see more stories soon.
....Now what was that that happened with Sam Cathey and his %50.00 bills?
Now Now 108.129.113.242...why are you making all those derogatory comments?
Hmmmmm, someone in Valdosta GA. really loves those within the Baptist Mafia!
Keep it up. We know U.
I forgave Bro. Wayne but was deeply hurt the Sunday night upon his return when his first comment to a hurting congregation was while he was away on his disciplanary time he enjoyed spending time with his wife and respected "councelor"(friend) and came back feeling "refreshed". It almost sounded like a vacation. After that my ears went deaf to anything else he said. I thought it was an insensative thing to say. I began to question if he still had a shepards heart for his flock. Did he think about us, our pain, or pray for us. Was he looking forwad to seeing us?
He came back feeling refreshed because he knew no one had the balls to stand up to him or fire him.
How do you think he wasn't looking forward to seeing us or wasn't praying for us?
Especially when his first words shared was how he missed us and was glad to see us.
Assumptions. All assumptions. Known him for a long time and yes he did mess up, but he asked for forgiveness on all accounts. To forgive and retract only creates sad bitterness in yourself.
Pray for him. Amazing the difference you will see in yourself.
It's not a matter of "forgive & forget", it's a matter of trust. He has violated trust and acted as if it is no big deal. His wife has been acting like a victim saying stupid junk on facebook. His non-wavering followers have shunned any who question him. He has split an entire congregation and seems unconcerned. He has disqualified himself from ministry even if forgiven. He would have said the same if it were someone else.
Forget and forgive is great phrase when the ones in Leadership who have sinned in the past at MBC asked forgiveness and were then asked to leave and were forgotten about. What is the difference between past leaders who have sinned, asked for forgiveness, and current leadership who has asked for forgiveness? If the people of this congregation allow Wayne Robertson to continue his ministry in the same capacity,then an apology needs to go out to the ones that have been asked to leave, that openly sinned.
The statment above is correct. Here's a "what if" question. What if someone on the staff at MBC was caught doing something questionable like Bro. Wayne did. Let's say hypothetically someone was copying sunday school lessons from some other published author and not giving proper acknowledgment to that person. Would Bro. Wayne send them away for 30 days to feel refreshed then allow them to come back and continue their same job? Big fat NO! He would terminate their job and dismiss them from the church. And anyone who has been attending MBC for a number of years and anyone who knows Bro. Wayne knows this is true. My question: Why is Bro. Wayne any different?? He is not.
Isn't that what crooks do, commit crimes and hope they get away with their actions?
Like everyone else does in life, hold the leadership accountable and fire the man.
He should be put on a shelf. All Morningside has done is given him and his wife a 30 paid vacation.
Is the church and its membership this stupid, ignorant, and blind?
Surely he hasn't got this much of a deep rooted cult hold, or does he?
Just got in some more info.
Let's see how much vacation time wayne gets on this one.
This will be a dozy. Just confirming source and final proof.
Get ready those of you within the Baptist Mafia and all your cheerleaders, disciples and all u sand pile members for a major announcement ......
He is hoping this just blows over. Ain't gonna happen!
I am one of the ones who knows only what has been shared in the church services.. What bothers me is what has been stated on here... Brother Wayne did not appear to show true repentance as he gave his apology speech.. when time and time before we have witnessed him come to tears during a sermon, or a comment and it seemed obvious that soemthing had touched his heart, since this thing blew up - we have not seen that. And the fact that the men who came to "revive" our church spoke solely about the issues the members needed to deal with, but never spoke one word to us about the pastor - or even how maybe we should forgive him him. Its been a HUGE elephant in every room. I came to Christ under Wayne Robertson's preaching - or apparantley under Sherman's words - but none the less, it has been in MBC. What I think many of us so-called "Cultmembers drinking the kool-aid" are consumed in, is not so much in "following" our plagarizing preacher - but the church family that we love. The nursery workers that keep our kids. Our Sunday school friends. Our neighbors in the pews. We love our environment, and I'm sure many are staying because of those connections that hold us accountable to God. However, when it comes to the leadership on the Grand scale - i.e. Brother Wayne, it seems to be pushed under the rug. They go away for a month and we are hushed to the subject. All "debate is to cease" all "questions are to stop upon their return." It doesn't make sense. And who is to say it's only been going on for four years? What happened four years ago for this to take place? For all we know, it may have been going on for longer, but four years is the traceable point of being caught. And to the comment about Brother Art coming up, and the other men coming up to speak against those who exposed the pastor - I was one of those who were clapping for their courage to stand up for him. And I'm positive they did not know the extent of it at the time - according to Brother Wayne's initial apology, he had only taken "peices of a sermon...without giving credit." So I believe their hearst were in the right place, and with what we had to go off of at that point - I;m glad they came to his defense. But as the truth unraveled the next Sunday - it was obvious, many would not stand up for that. Plagarizism has always been plagarizism. There is no way to say you did not know it was plagarizing if you only "spoke" the words and did not "publish" the words of someone else. Come On. But at least give a heartfelt repentance, and not pick right back up as if nothing has happened. It seems that Wednesday night testimonies had been cut out at the right time - maybe some exposure or questions may have put this in the open sooner.
meant to say "Stedman" - but you get the idea
Who will take a stand against him, who?
The men that stood up are labeled as trouble makers?? The elders of the church needs to stand up and ask him to leave. But whats going to happen is one by one families are going to leave until they have nothing but "Wayne-ittes"left. Then with tears in his eyes and his 6 digit income still in place he will stand up and say "WELCOME TO FRIENDLY MORNINGSIDE BAPTIST CHURCH!! I don't have a problem with forgiving him, but as I sit in the pew I see them more concerned with what's best for Wayne not what's best for Morningside? It breaks my heart that we were decieved and I ask the elders to consider what would Wayne have done if it had been YOU!
I hear he is speaking at the sbc pastors conf. Umh!
I hear those resume's are now flying out of Danny Watters hands all over the southeast.
Who is Danny? Works for the GBC and handles pastors " secret missions " for relocation's when issues arise at a pastor like this church!
He is looking for that pay raise now from some new church or he will have a dog and pony show soon from the leadership threatening that he wants to move on. Just a GBC tactic to make the church clingy, and the church usually falls for it.
.....Or has that already been done?
Jeremiah 23:1-2
Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture! saith the LORD. Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed My people; Ye have scattered My flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
From the Morningside Baptist Constitution and Bylaws:
There shall be (by all members, elders, and deacons) respect for the office of the Pastor. He shall be held in esteem and respected as an undershepherd of God (1 Thess. 5:12-13) To aid him in carrying out his ministry, the church body shall not burden him with tasks unrelated to those duties that are absolutely necessary to his undershepherding. The main task of the Pastor is the preaching of the Word of God from the pulpit and nothing shall be permitted to diminish the time and effort that the Pastor needs to make such a ministry Spirit-filled and instructive.
Titus 1:6-7
New American Standard Bible
Qualifications of Elders
6 namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. 7 For the [a] overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain,
Waiting on the good stuff?
This site has all kinds of GOOD STUFF!
Can't you read?
I like this....Great post ANON.
Jeremiah 23:1-2
Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture! saith the LORD. Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed My people; Ye have scattered My flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
Babble and spam gets deleted. Don't BABBLE.
Nashville, Georgia 173.186.209.137
Please refrain from being so demanding. We do this at our pace.. Ok
Now do I need to tell all who you are?
May the Lord Jesus Christ rebuke you Wayne Robertson. You could have had God's very best but like Saul your pride just would not let you trust and obey and do it God's way. Remember your favorite quote? "Sin will take you further than you ever thought you'd go, keep you longer than you'd ever thought you'd stay and cost you more than you ever thought you pay." You broke my heart and so many others...but more importantly what in the word do you think you've been doing to the heart of your Lord and Savoir Jesus Christ who paid it all and had already bought it all for you....I pity you and Beth that His precious blood wasn't enough and I pray one day you both will allow the beautiful truth and peace of who He is to wrap you in His riches...what was your and Beth's favorite song that you shared so many times with us? Well, I remember and I pray that it will consume your hearts and minds for Jesus no matter what it takes to get you there:
I’d rather have Jesus than silver or gold;
I’d rather be His than have riches untold;
I’d rather have Jesus than houses or lands;
I’d rather be led by His nail-pierced hand Refrain:
Than to be the king of a vast domain
And be held in sin’s dread sway;
I’d rather have Jesus than anything
This world affords today.
I’d rather have Jesus than men’s applause;
I’d rather be faithful to His dear cause;
I’d rather have Jesus than worldwide fame;
I’d rather be true to His holy name
He’s fairer than lilies of rarest bloom;
He’s sweeter than honey from out the comb;
He’s all that my hungering spirit needs;
I’d rather have Jesus and let Him lead
Than to be the king of a vast domain
Or be held in sin's dread sway.
I'd rather have Jesus than anything
This world affords today.
---all credits given to Mrs. Rhea F. Miller - who penned these lyrics 1894 - 1966
BIBLE REFERENCES FROM A HYMN AND ITS HISTORY:
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. Philippians 1:21
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which
your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but
as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. Joshua 24:15
And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. And they straightway left their nets, and
followed him. And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his
brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them. And they immediately left the
ship and their father, and followed him. Matthew 4:19-22
But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know
your state. For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state. For all seek their own, not the
things which are Jesus Christ's. But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me
in the gospel. Philippians 2:19-22
As long as they get their paychecks and incentive's, they could care less.
Just keep " passing the plate please "is all these Pharisees hope and pray for.
The Nashville IP Address posted is coming from A windstream account. 1-229-525-****...Anyone else want to just start using their real names?
I will post my name if you will. I have nothing to hide!
It is so sad when a church is divide for sin of the pastor and his ignorance for not doing what is best for the people!! Resigning would have saved us so much hurt!! But on the other hand, he cares more for himself than others!!
If your looking at this post and you are a member from another church. Be on the look out for the ex members of MBC. These are some of the best people you will ever know. Love on them and minister to them as they have been hurt.Deeply.
Deny - Deny - Deny, that is there game plan and they are sticking to it.
So, what will the membership do? Bury their Heads in the Sand like everyone else does when a "MAN OF GOD" has been busted.
Sick. The members of MBC are SICK!
wow, just wow. I had no idea Wayne would do this. I hope he remorseful. This is stunning.
From Red's website....maybe someone can read slowly the below for all PLAGIARIZING PASTORS.
" This data file is the sole property of Discovery Publishing, a ministry of Peninsula Bible Church. It may be copied only in its entirety for circulation freely without charge.
All copies of this data file must contain the above copyright notice.
This data file may not be copied in part, edited, revised, copied for resale or incorporated in any commercial publications, recordings, broadcasts, performances, displays or other products offered for sale, without the written permission of Discovery Publishing."
***FOR ALL THE IGNORANT MEMBERS AND CULT FOLLOWERS / DISCIPLES OF WAYNE ROBERTSON,and even Wayne himself, HERE IS " THE " Definition of PLAGIARIZE.......
transitive verb
: to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source
intransitive verb
: to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source
So your just gonna let him off with a wrist slap?
Sic em Cult buster
Another church destroyed by the greedy and power hungry. It sometimes takes years for issues to be exposed, but the eventually come out. How anyone can live with this is beyond belief. What a horrible legacy these men now have. These men's families and church members associated with them must be so embarrassed!
If NOT, they should be!
To Hell with men like these men who have discouraged so many.
I would hate to face GOD with all the blood they have on their hands.
My goodness.
We can tell you passion for God as you damn men to hell. Give me a break with faux anger and real hatred! Your words show your heart!
Just wondering what churches those who are leaving have vistied and enjoyed? We're looking for a new church home that is not shunning those who are still upset by all of this, and who are defending what has happened by sweeping it under the rug like the higher ups have been doing.
Hi,
You might be interested in my doctoral research on spiritual abuse and recovery.
My website is: www.ChurchExiters.com.
My book is: Spiritual Abuse Recovery.
Barb
Spiritual Abusers don't think they are abusing anyone. They think you're just lost.
This site is full of them too. Just read all the post.
For all you Calvinist who believe in your man based theology and many of those who have been busted on this site and others and who really believe the bible speaks loud for the " chosen ".... answer this for me ~ if you believe what you believe and then HOW can this verse and John 3:16 be overcome? It can't!
1 John 2:2
King James Version (KJV)
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Chosen? Does not sound like it all all here!
Wow! All these years and no scholar has ever looked at Jn 3:16 and 1st Jn 2:2. You stumped everyone there guy! Glad Spurgeon never read those verses. Glad Whitefield never read those, glad Luther...never mind your ignorance speaks volumes on its own!
ANON,
I think "Not a Calvinist" has a point. Why can't you just answer his or her question vs attacking?
Your response makes YOU look like the one showing " ignorance speaks volumes on its own!"
Now go back and answer the question, if you or anyone can...I am interested in especially a hyper Calvinist response ~ but I bet there won't be a good answer, just attacks for questioning Calvinism ~ which is typical of you guys.
Men we have exposed can't answer that question either " Not a Calvanist."
None of them, no NOT one of them.
As far as Spurgeon, Glad, or even current man theology based propaganda icons pushing John Calvin gunk and JUNK ( like Albert or C J ) can answer this simple question. It makes their and all other Calvinist heads spin like the one that attacked you with their recent comment! Truth will do that you know.
Attack the messenger of opposition= now that's the Calvinistic way! How dare anyone question their man based theology.
If John Calvin were alive he would seek to have " heads a rollin'
CULT!
"Hubristic pride" is a label one should always avoid.
Theses " Hubristic " within the Georgia Baptist Convention were really hoping no one one find them out, but Cultbuster you did another great job exposing another scam used on those one foot in the grave Baptist church members that continue to bury their heads in the sands concerning religious voodoo actions.
Folks, you will NOT go to HELL for exposing wrong and standing up for Christ and his Kingdom.
My question is did anyone have the courage to stand against wrong and fire his lying mouth?
It has always seemed unfair to me that many churches (and some individual Christians) keep careful records on how many converts they make to Christianity, but never keep any record of how many they drive away from Christ! --Ray C. Stedman
All people have to do is:
A - stop giving them money
B - leave altogether
C - continue to pray that God will continue to call His true children out of this congregation.
D - All of the above
Well I am a former M.B.C. member and although I have not read all of this blog I am very disturbed at some I did read. This whole thing is really a tragic situation as we all know. That is why I have always said NEVER put your faith in ANYONE other than Jesus Christ ! Its so unfortunate that so many people continue to put their faith in man and when the man falls, their faith like one blogger posted is shaken. That my friend depends on what your faith is in. (Heb.12:26-29) states 26.Whose voice then shook the earth:but now he hath promised,saying,yet once more I shake not the earth only,but also heaven.27.And this word, yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that that are shaken,as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.28.Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved,let us have grace,whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:29.For our God is a consuming fire. And I DID NOT COPY AND PASTE I copied right out of my KJV BIBLE.Also there was another blogger stated that it should of been handled inside the church. Well my friend that is what they tried to do! Wayne was confronted by a concerned member and he justified and rationalized it away played like he didn't THINK he was doing anything wrong. Eventually an elder confronted him he did the same thing, even denied his guilt and pleaded ignorance. To this point he has been and still is unrepentant and unwilling to have a broken and contrite heart over the issue and over his lies to his church, Instead he has allowed other men and even himself to get in the pulpit and bully and rebuke the congregation like it is their fault for even bringing it up, playing the victim. I was even told by one of the elders that if the people had not of continued to "gossip" among themselves it would have never gotten out of hand. Well dear elder the very reason they where talking about it is because it DID get out of hand because you leaders would NOT deal with it properly which is a SHAME !!!!!! I hold you as much if not more responsible than Wayne.
I myself forgive brother Wayne. I fail my Lord on a daily basis and stand in need of forgiveness it is my duty to forgive others.I have been forgiven much. But the issue now at hand is not the act of plagiarism itself or the need of forgiveness on our part it is the lack of repentance and the continued abuse of the sheep, even the ones that have left.It was recently stated that all the people that left were following another member because some voting didn't go the way they thought it should! That is the most ignorant and absurd thing I have heard. Whoever said that is exposing their ignorance because MOST of the people that have left were gone before that individual was. I for one left because I was tired of being accused,bullied and abused by leaders every time I would ask about a passage of scripture that they were in direct disobedience of.I thought the whole issue had kind of settled a little bit and "Friendly Morningside Baptist Church" was going on and conducting business as usual, according to the vision that states every week "God has just been blessing us so much with visitors, things are just so great, its wonderful to have brother Wayne in the pulpit"(wow never heard such brown nosing,keep it up John maybe your salary wont get cut) BUT the fact that some genius individuals have to dig it all up in an act of defense and tell lies to the people that are there about why some have left and make cowardly threats that if any former members tried to get anyone to leave or continued to discuss these issues let the elders know of it and it would be dealt with. It is obvious that your guilt is screaming out in ignorance and the former members do thank you because you are doing nothing but giving us confirmation that we did the right thing by coming out. Just keep on telling lies trying to defend yourself and justify your actions you are doing nothing but proving your own guilt. I call anyone who cares about our Lord to come out and be not partakers of her sins.(Rev.18:4) The old saying still stands a bit dog will always holler.
Did Wayne and his Baptist buddies head to New Orleans to be with their other sorry counterparts?
Yes he did and preached a fine sermon I might add! You all have any new stuff?
Was it his own sermon? It was probably about being persecuted from within the church or something slick like that. Welcome to the spin zone!! When a pastor gets caught cheating, stealing, lying about it to his congregation, getting paid for work he doesn't do, and so on, he is sent on a vacation. When he returns, he blames it on a disgruntled deacon and it is called being persecuted. When the rest of us do it, it is called sin. Politicians aren't only in Washington DC they are in the SBC too.
I would like to answer the question from the 9th about Calvinism and the 1st John 2:2 verse. Every time you see WHOLE WORLD, ALL,or WORLD or anything like that in the scripture it DOSE NOT MEAN EVERY HUMAN BEING on the planet. It means all or whole or world out of every tribe tongue and nation, meaning not only for the Jews but for other people of different parts of the world and I am sure glad our sovereign Lord CHOSE it that way because I am Not a Jew.So your question was answered. NOW answer me a question ... IF he died for the WHOLE WORLD meaning ALL and you can choose for yourself to follow him or not does that mean that his blood was not powerful enough and sufficient enough to complete and seal redemption ? Let me answer that for you I THINK NOT !!! His elect was chosen and complete before the foundation of this very world, his blood was plenty sufficient enough to complete and seal redemption he did not die to make salvation possible for those that wold choose him he came to seal them that were already chosen AMEN! AMEN! AND AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!
This comment is direct to:
ANON June 18, 2012 10:43 PM
You and all your Calvinist Baptist buddies are so wrong and desperate.
You really need to go back to your sand pile and bury your head in that sand and when you come up be sure to drink more of the Cult Kool Aid.
You are exactly why we continue to expose issues and will continue to do so - and at our pace I may add -
We have so much to report and will in due time.
Sam Cathey is next on our list. Prepare yourselves for more truths from THE CULTBUSTER.
Now back to Wayne Robertson.....
It will be a month or so before any new stuff comes out. Pathetic.
According to history it will be two months. Just sayin. Wd you to long in providing info. Just saying
Or shuold I say pars mill.
Wayne Robertson's, message at the Southern Baptist Convention on Persecution. If this don't make you throw up then you don't have a weak bone in your body.
Credit given to the SBC website and Wayne Robertson. Not my words but theirs. Not my site but the SBCS. Enjoy.
Wayne Robertson, pastor of Morningside Baptist Church in Valdosta, Ga., said pastors can experience God's protection when they are persecuted -- even though persecution of American ministers is vastly different than persecution of first-century believers.
"Because of our laws, we're not as prone to hear of people dying for their faith in this country," he said. "In our sophistication, we are far more prone to destroy a person's reputation, and there is more than one way of persecuting someone."
Preaching from John 16, Robertson said remaining faithful to God is the first key to experiencing protection amid attacks. In moments of mistreatment, remembering God's call to ministry will help pastors press on, he said.
"One of the things you need to review is, why are you in the work?" he said, adding, "There are some uncertain days that you stay in the work because God called you, and you have never forgotten the call God put on your life."
Jesus told His followers that persecution was inevitable, but He also said it had a purpose -- and enduring it brings pastors an eternal award, Robertson said.
"When you stand before [God] one day with everything that's been said against you, with every wrong you have had to face, with every time your eyes have cried tears, every time your heart has hurt, every time you've had brokenness -- those things are counting for something," Robertson said.
God will not only help persecuted pastors on the judgment day, he said, but the Holy Spirit comforts them in this life as well.
"When we have spoken to one another all we can speak, oh, get on your face," Robertson declared. "God will do something in your spirit that nobody else can do."
"[God] is not separated from your trial. He knows where you are. He knows what you're going through," Roberts said.
http://www.sbcannualmeeting.net/sbc12/newsroom/newspage.asp?ID=13
Good stuff! Thanks for sharing!
Now, that is funny. I wonder if Wayne knows that Pastors and others all all that know his actions across America are laughing at his comments.
I did not see where anyone said anything about "why" and "how" to make sure persecution as a minister doesn't have to happen.
You know, like coping or PLAGIARIZING SERMONS.......
You know, like coping or PLAGIARIZING SERMONS.......
you forgot that he was also selling them plagiarized sermons for $4 each to the members of his own church.
Great convention wonderful messages. Just like Wayne you need to get some new stuff this is boring.
I am a member of this church. I've read the entire blog. I have heard wayne from the pulpit state if you can't trust me fire me. Can any one trust him now? He has shown himself to be a liar and a cheat. The comment re: can't trust me was made in reference to the budget and where the money goes. I know of several members have asked to see the budget and he refused. He has stated MANY times if you don't like it leave and so has Sam and Bill. Two staff mbrs were fired due to sexual inmorality but Sam, who was arrested in Atl for soliciting was allowed to fill the pulpit. Wayne has reportedly stated that he would be alright even if 100 people left the church. This shows me exactly where his heart is and where his interest lies. His thing, my opinion, is power and control. He should resign but he want. He'll ride the storm out - I love you church family and you love me - and it will be business as usual. You are welcome.
Can I ask why one stay under the teaching and preaching of wayne who has been found to be a liar and cheat who keeps the finances a secret, basically held unaccountable for his actions. I was there when the 2 staff members was forced to resign. I did not agree with it then but why is he not held under the same scrutiny as the past two staff members. I think staying under his leadership is far worse than what wayne did. That is my 2 cents worth. Who is he trusting in the storm? Jesus? Who condemns unrepentant sin?
At last count it is over 130 that have left, and still counting. That may be a bit more than he was counting on!! Every time He and the elders get up and SLAMS those who have left there is a bunch more that walk out! they are not allowed to vote with thier HANDS so they have decieded to vote with thier FEET !!
When he takes delegates to the convention HE AND THEY HOLD UP THIER BALLOTS UP AND VOTE ON THE ISSUES, but no voting is allowed in the church, even on major issues!
At least we still have 400-I think?
The people who left probably don't attend church anyway
I remember when Wayne used to come in to my church Prays Mill when he and Mike was at their PRIME. I knew Wayne had something wrong with him, but could not put my finger on it. Now I can.
Looks like he is following the same path as his buddy and destrying your church as Mike Everson did to my church Prays Mill Baptist in Douglasville Ga.
Prays Mill once had 700+ members attending early in his tenure, and after he was exposed for what he was, a Spiritual Abuser, he self destructed and destroyed Prays Mill. We now have anywhere from 180 to 240 on any given Sunday.
You now are heading down the same path Morningside. You better deal with him before your church ends up like those that Mike Everson and Chad Everson destroyed - all three of them.
Great post Cultbuster! Expose em.
To The People Who Left Probably don't attend church anyway... The people who have left are 4 deacons, many Sunday School teachers, faithful choir/orchestra members, outreach leaders, ushers, care group leaders, children's choir teachers, youth workers, etc. Some have been members for over 40 years. They were at MBC week after week serving because they love Jesus. They have been brokenhearted to not only see how little the church means to Wayne, but to see how little obeying the Bible means to him. I have heard that one of the Elders stated just what you did. Sounds like the Elder and you don't know the people.
There comes a point in which the line in the sand is do you follow Christ or man? These people with heavy hearts have left the church they have spent their lives serving, they have left the people they love, why? Because they could no longer follow a man who would not follow the Bible.
I am a member at MBC and our church will never be like prays mill. Our church is like a machine, we can pump up the roles within 2 months and most of the church thinks it is the problem of someone else. At MBC we have dedicated members, shoot we will even turn in our friends to the elder board, that is love. And that beautiful sound of bro Wayne saying,"I love you church family". It truly is exciting times at Friendly morningside baptist church!
Hey is mike stone still coming to our bible conference? Or did he find out about little Wayne and is habits
There are legal ways that you as members can demand to see the finances of the church...If I were the 130 or so that have left and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars through the years..I would pull together and get legal counsel to get a court order to have the records released
My brother/sister we are not like Wayne and elders we actually follow and obey God's word-we don't sue brothers in christ
In reference to SBC message from little Wayne: remember why you Stay in the ministry-no time clock, no boss, all the fake hours counseling, lots of money/credit cards with no work, the only downside is every once in awhile you have to wipe the Koop aid from the sheep's mouth-at MBC that is a lot of wiping
There are rumors circling Valdosta, GA about Wayne Robertson and they must stop! Rumor 1: he has been seen attending vacation bible with the official vbs shirt on-this is false I have been at this church for 17 years, he has never never attended VBS, in fact he takes vacation during that time. Rumor 2: He has been seen at Sunday school socials-this is false he never attends the socials to busy counseling Rumor 3: He offered money to renovate the college and career building-that is false for the past five years him and the elders would not even pay for one gallon of paint. Rumor 4: he has been seen shaking everyone's hand before the services (I.e working the crowd)- this is false been there 17 years he enters from a special back door to kitchen and quickly sits on front row-no handshaking. Rumor 5: Sheep say he doesn't care about people-are you serious he loves us so much he uncover his lack of work ethic on "Friend Day".
All these rumors are false and by the way did I tell you I spotted Sasquatch yesterday! Can't wait to eat that hotdog longer than his suburban!
Little Wayne sorry you have to do the two things you hate the most: study God's word and interact with the sheep-plumbing and electric not sound so bad-at least pipes and electricity don't reveal the truth
I use to have alot of respect and think John Yates was a smart man. However, after reading his artical in the church vision this week I realized he is the biggest and dumbest brownnoser in all the world. I'm starting to believe these church staff people will do ANYTHING to keep there job.
Please post the article
go to morningside.ws and click on view the vision and then click on 6-26
This is what John Yates Wrote..
Unbelievable!!!
A Few Reasons I am Thankful for My Pastor
In recent days the Lord has reminded me how blessed I am to have Wayne Robertson as my
pastor. Sadly, we often take for granted those closest to us. It is good to remember God’s
blessings on us through our pastor. Consider the following about Brother Wayne.
• He is a man of integrity. He says the same thing to your face that he says to others. His
word can be trusted. I have known Brother Wayne for almost 23 years, and he has never
given me any reason to doubt his word or his sincerity.
• Brother Wayne is the best pastor I have ever known. He loves his people, leads his
church, and feeds us the meat of the Word each week.
• As Brother Wayne preached at the Southern Baptist Pastors’ Conference last week I was
reminded that he is one of the very best preachers in the country. Very few people are
blessed to have the kind of Christ-centered, meaningful, and applicable Bible preaching
that we get three times each week.
• Brother Wayne is respected throughout the state convention and much of the national
convention. He is known and loved by seminary presidents, denominational leaders, and
pastors throughout the country.
• Brother Wayne is a man of godly wisdom. I have sought his advice many times, and he
has never steered me wrong.
• Most importantly, he is a man of God who seeks to lead our church to obey, follow, and
love the Lord.
Thank you, Brother Wayne, for being our pastor! I am grateful, honored, and blessed to serve with you.
Of course Wayne "loves his church family" why wouldn't he? He loves power, not having to clock in, having no accountability with finiances, ( or anything for that matter) using and abusing his "family" and doing whatever King Wayne needs done that day! He has his kingdom established and is LOVING it! If Wayne "loves" his church family so much then why is he saying that it is no big deal that over 100 church members have left?! O wait! They can crank up enrollment and keep that spiritual machine running! That's why Wayne doesn't care! Because all he cares about is himself and his reputation. And what he did on Friend Day just proves it even more. Wayne Robertson needs to get his head out of his rear end an look around because the last time I checked there is only one King and that Jesus! Not little Wayne!
When I think of everything getting blamed on the deacon who wanted to become elder, I just laugh. Who in their right mind would believe all those faithful people would leave over something stupid like that? That is ridiculous! That deacon is a very Godly man. Wonder how his wife feels about her husband getting blamed? What about the deacon that has young children? His wife and children were kicked out of the church because her husband and 3 other deacons took a stand for what was right. The wives and kids were innocent (even the husbands),but were told to find a new church home, when they had done absolutely nothing wrong. I bet it is hard to explain to the kids why they couldn't go to VBS, or to their sunday school classes and see their friends. One elder said he wouldn't fire Wayne b/c he was afraid of facing judgment. What about the judgment from knowingly lying to the congregation and blaming it on the deacon and not accepting responsibility for what they and the pastor have done. As a former member, I thank God for those men who took a stand. I hear that the people that are still left at MBC are being very mean to the ones that have left. That is such a poor testimony. For those who are still "wavering", put on your big boy pants and take a stand for God's Word and for what is right. I'm so thankful that I serve a Mighty God who is all-knowing. He knows the truth.
150+ members have left. Wayne, himself, has stated on numerous occasions to his flock (which he loves so much), "If you don't like it, leave." He even has his elders saying it.
Wayne and his Elders are blaming this on a deacon that got mad. It is easier than taking responsiblity for neglecting the study of God's Word, lying to your congregation, having one set of rules for the congregation & one set for yourself, Papacy-type leadership, etc.
The Elders are very worried about what God will do to them if they don't protect Wayne? I wonder if they have considered what God thinks about them not protecting His Bride from their pastor? When Elders excuse a man who is wrong and do not protect the Church it is a sin.
For years, Wayne has cared more about climbing his convention ladder than loving & caring for his own flock.
That is what CULT members do. Just wait it gets worse, much worse.
this is from ed stetzer
http://www.edstetzer.com/2012/04/unhealthy-christian-organizati-1.html
So, how do you know if your Christian organization or church is dysfunctional? Let me share some signs I have observed:
1. The church or organizational culture does not value those serving, just those leading and the function of the organization. When ministry leaders see people as tools rather than partners, the end result is that people are used to serve the purpose, rather than being part of the purpose. They are the tools but they don't matter-- only the leaders matter.
2. The leader is the only one who is allowed to think. The followers are to implement and nothing more. As the organization grows and the leader's bandwidth does not, decisions are delayed and delayed because other leaders cannot make them. At one place, they refer to the leader's office as "the black hole to which ideas go to die." All ideas have to be approved by the leader, and since that leader thinks only he/she has good ideas, no ideas come from the people.
3. The organization or church thinks everyone else is wrong and only they are right. Thus, there is no value in other people or groups-- there is a narrow group of the acceptable and the "others" are not just wrong, they are stupid. Arrogance is almost always a mark of an unhealthy Christian organization.
4. People rationalize that the good they are experiencing is worth the abuse they are receiving. Often, it is not until they have stepped away that they realize this was not true. This is one of the great lies that Christians are led to believe-- that the end justifies the means. Dysfunctional organizations are towers of cards-- looking (and maybe doing) good now, but they will fall because eventually the truth comes out.
5. People often know of the glaring character problems of the leader, but no one can speak truth to power. Often, I've noticed, these dynamic leaders are known for their anger, yet the organization fears (rather than addresses) the leader's anger. In the end, the leader is unquestionable due to spiritual, apostolic, ecclesiastical, academic, or some other power base.
6. Many times, the leader gets a pass for the fruit of his/her leadership because of some overwhelming characteristic: preaching ability, intelligence, ability to woo others, or more. Yet, the fruit remains below-- a culture toxic to all who swim downstream. The leader is often seen (from the outside) as a great leader, but those inside know him/her as someone who is, well, more concerned about outside appearance than godly leadership.
To be blunt, I see this last issue more often than you might expect. Perhaps it is because of what I do, working with different denominations and groups. I am encouraged now to be in a more healthy work environment. However, I think there is a significant issue out there-- a lot of unhealthy Christian organizations are hurting those who serve within them.
Maybe you are in an unhealthy church or organization. Over the next few weeks, I would like to write something more definitive (and I hope helpful) on the subject as I see it as a great need. If you are willing, share some other characteristics (and let me know if these characteristics I've shared are accurate). For this series, I am suspending the comment rules about anonymous posting but please be wise in the words and comments.
more from ed stetzer
http://www.edstetzer.com/2012/04/considering-and-surviving-unhe.html
In part one, I shared six signs you may be working in an unhealthy Christian organization. Many of you shared your experiences in the comment section as well. Unfortunately those issues occur more often than any of us would like.
Some interesting things occurred in response to that post. First, more than one person from the same organization contacted me thanking me. My exhortation to them was simple-- I've been there, hang in there but get out as fast as you can.
That is why, if you do find yourself in an unhealthy Christian organization, I would encourage you to consider that God may want you to leave it. My own standard is this: will staying here hurt my walk with God or harm my family?
You might be able to handle it, but you have to ask how it will impact your family as well. You may notice that the leader often talks about the priority of family, but generally only gives priority to his or her own family-- if even them. You are the only one who is advocating for your family-- protect them.
Being at a place that "makes a difference" sounds good, but if you end up with a confused spiritual life or broken family, it is just not worth the price. You do not want to be a "great place" and have a broken life because you have become warped by the culture around you.
That is indeed what happens. You can often see the impact on those close to the leader. An unhealthy Christian organization tends to have two things going on at the top of the organizations:
First, many of the best leaders leave (and the leader finds a way to spin their departure).
Second, the leaders that stay take on the unhealthy characteristics of the organization, becoming part of the problem (even though they often bemoan the attributes of the leader). In a sense, we reproduce who we are-- creating "mini-me" personalities of the leader.
Yet, that is what the unhealthy leader wants-- no one to disagree or give another idea. So, in all likelihood, your best scenario is to leave.
If you believe you need to leave, start praying and looking for another ministry opportunity. This recognition of a different future will likely ease the daily pain and struggle, and help you to face each day. When you know you are going to leave, you can deal with staying a lot easier-- and I know this from personal experience. When I have been in unhealthy situations, once I decided I was going to leave I did not worry so much about what was going on around me. Either way, trust your future to Christ and he gives peace that passes all understanding.
continued below
continued from ed stetzer
However, the reality is, in some cases you may need to stay. If that is the case, and if you believe God wants you to stay, I'd suggest these attitudes:
1. Don't be afraid. Fear makes you cower rather than live in courage. Recognize you are in an unhealthy organization, but don't become an unhealthy servant. I assure you, this will make you stand out (and people will say bad things), but don't be a coward for any reason.
2. Make a difference. When I served in unhealthy places, I simply asked, "What can I do here, now?" And when you are not scurrying about in fear, you can get much done for the kingdom. I was able to encourage a lot of people-- often those living in the same toxic culture.
3. Speak truth. Don't be afraid to tell the truth about the culture, and when appropriate, the leadership. There will probably be some pushback, or even retaliation, but as you tell the truth with grace and humility, you may be heard--or it may reveal that you need to go.
4. Recognize the Lord may have other reasons for keeping you in your position. Perhaps you have another ministry in your city or church. If that is the case, contribute where you can in your job, recognize how it provides for your family, but focus your energies on your ministry. I know some who continue to work in unhealthy organizations, but stay out of devotion to their local church ministry or other calling. They endure the unhealthy organization to pursue their calling with joy.
These are not easy answers. It may be some are struggling in their places of service and don't know where to turn. I encourage you to pray and seek the Lord's wisdom in your calling. It may be that you will be called to do some difficult yet courageous things.
Have you left a ministry? Have you stayed? What was the result? Did you make the wise choice? What did you learn? Share your thoughts with us below.
As I am doing for this particular series, the comment rules about anonymous posting are suspended but please be wise in the words/names used in your comments.
http://www.edstetzer.com/2012/04/unhealthy-christian-organizati-1.html
from ed stetzer
In recent months, I have run across several people in unhealthy Christian churches and organizations. Having worked in some such settings myself, I have seen patterns that led me to start thinking . . . and writing. Maybe that is not such a good idea, but I think it is an important one. The issue continues to grow and, although such organizations can actually do good, the harm they cause to many others is immeasurable.
I started thinking about writing this article when a couple I know were approached about working at a prominent Christian organization. They expressed appreciation of how much good is done by this organization. Yet, they were not interested because they knew people who worked there. And, although everyone who worked there would readily say God was doing great things, they also used two phrases regularly: "we're miserable" and "around here, you just keep your head down and do your job."
And therein lies the quandary of the dysfunctional Christian organization-- it often does good things on the outside while destroying the soul of those on the inside.
So, how do you know if your Christian organization or church is dysfunctional? Let me share some signs I have observed:
1. The church or organizational culture does not value those serving, just those leading and the function of the organization. When ministry leaders see people as tools rather than partners, the end result is that people are used to serve the purpose, rather than being part of the purpose. They are the tools but they don't matter-- only the leaders matter.
2. The leader is the only one who is allowed to think. The followers are to implement and nothing more. As the organization grows and the leader's bandwidth does not, decisions are delayed and delayed because other leaders cannot make them. At one place, they refer to the leader's office as "the black hole to which ideas go to die." All ideas have to be approved by the leader, and since that leader thinks only he/she has good ideas, no ideas come from the people.
3. The organization or church thinks everyone else is wrong and only they are right. Thus, there is no value in other people or groups-- there is a narrow group of the acceptable and the "others" are not just wrong, they are stupid. Arrogance is almost always a mark of an unhealthy Christian organization.
4. People rationalize that the good they are experiencing is worth the abuse they are receiving. Often, it is not until they have stepped away that they realize this was not true. This is one of the great lies that Christians are led to believe-- that the end justifies the means. Dysfunctional organizations are towers of cards-- looking (and maybe doing) good now, but they will fall because eventually the truth comes out.
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from ed stetzer continued
5. People often know of the glaring character problems of the leader, but no one can speak truth to power. Often, I've noticed, these dynamic leaders are known for their anger, yet the organization fears (rather than addresses) the leader's anger. In the end, the leader is unquestionable due to spiritual, apostolic, ecclesiastical, academic, or some other power base.
6. Many times, the leader gets a pass for the fruit of his/her leadership because of some overwhelming characteristic: preaching ability, intelligence, ability to woo others, or more. Yet, the fruit remains below-- a culture toxic to all who swim downstream. The leader is often seen (from the outside) as a great leader, but those inside know him/her as someone who is, well, more concerned about outside appearance than godly leadership.
To be blunt, I see this last issue more often than you might expect. Perhaps it is because of what I do, working with different denominations and groups. I am encouraged now to be in a more healthy work environment. However, I think there is a significant issue out there-- a lot of unhealthy Christian organizations are hurting those who serve within them.
Maybe you are in an unhealthy church or organization. Over the next few weeks, I would like to write something more definitive (and I hope helpful) on the subject as I see it as a great need. If you are willing, share some other characteristics (and let me know if these characteristics I've shared are accurate). For this series, I am suspending the comment rules about anonymous posting but please be wise in the words and comments.
I would like to say that 15 years ago...I know for a fact...that means first hand information..not rumers...Jack O Howell was told everything that was going on at the church..he was told all this that is posted in this sight..he has known for a long time....alos...John wirtes many nice things..of course he does...He is still there...I wonder what all the former staff that have left would say...why not ask them...But...you know how Wayne is...they are sinners now..they have No credibility!!!
The only option is legal..members need to get the finances and make them public...don't leave the church like I did..fight him tooth and nail...Maybe Cultbusters should start a legal defense fund for these members....
from ed stetzer
http://www.edstetzer.com/2012/06/unhealthy-christian-organizati.html
Previously at the blog, we've looked at unhealthy Christian organizations (part one, part two) and the response has been quite surprising. I've had calls from numerous Christian leaders telling me that they were printing out copies for their staff... and I've had people from more than one organization ask if I was talking about them. To quote Rick Warren, no, "It's not about you."
It is about a pattern, and this pattern is both real and widespread. Some organizations really are unhealthier than others, and, unfortunately, I've seen it-- as you probably have as well.
It's interesting, however, to see "behind the curtain" of both healthy and unhealthy churches, organizations, and denominations. For example, while I was in Phoenix with the Foursquare Church a few weeks ago, I was struck by their health and sense of family. Even as they disagreed, the focus was family and graciousness in their disagreement. People were allowed to ask questions, leadership was transparent, and trust was present. Having consulted with the Foursquare for five years now under two presidents (Jack Hayford and now Glenn Burris), I can tell you they have made great strides to get there-- it takes effort to move to good health. It is not an easy process, and my Foursquare brothers and sisters would attest to that.
So, how does an organization move from unhealthy to healthy? Well, it is not simply something we can "will" into existence. Instead, it is a process.
First, the organization has to admit is has a problem. I know it's cliché, but the first step toward health truly is admitting that you have a problem. Most unhealthy organizations act like they don't want to know the truth and do everything to avoid realizing it. I once suggested an employee survey in such a place, and the response was quite telling: "We can't do that because it will give everyone an opportunity to complain." Indeed it might-- and, I said, maybe you should listen. All organizations are made up of sinful, fallen people. There has to be enough freedom for those individuals, especially those in leadership, to be able to say "We are off track. We repent. God help us."
Second, the organization has to admit that sometimes unhealthy cultures come from unhealthy leaders. This is easily observed in the change that takes place with rising leaders as they come into closer proximity to existing leadership. Who are they becoming? With increased proximity, do you see the development of maturity, discernment, and the ability to address problems within the organization? Or do you see individuals jockeying for position, power, and limited privileges? One of the best things any leader can do is to lead through his or her own failings-- and to admit them. To say things like, "I lose my temper sometimes, and I am sorry." One of the best things a developing leader can do is to ask oneself as he or she grows closer to an organization's leader-- is your respect of that leader growing or diminishing? Are you being challenged to a higher level of character and integrity or being asked to lower it?
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from ed stetzer continued
Third, those who are empowered by the bad leadership culture will need to work hard to resist it. This may be the most difficult, because these are typically the same individuals who have thrived on the dysfunction and hardly want it to be seen. I recall one leader who would sandbag every attempt at internal analysis because he knew what it would find. He knew the organization was unhealthy and had managed to manipulate it for his personal gain.
Let me add that the pressure and culture found in unhealthy organizations also have some impact on those who benefit from them. While moral failings, scandals, and burnout are not unique to unhealthy organizations, they do seem to occur at a higher rate in those that are unhealthy. It should be no surprise when Christians fail morally when they have spent years ignoring the promptings of the Holy Spirit and the counsel of brothers and sisters in Christ in how to conduct themselves in the likeness of Christ.
Fourth, the organization has to be willing to listen to its constructive critics. If no one can say to the leader, "there are issues," well, then, there are issues. Big issues. Healthy organizations do not listen to every cynic (and there are many), but they do listen to discerning critics. For example, I have tried to surround myself with people who speak into my life and remind me that I am not a big deal and that I still have many areas in which to grow. These cannot all be people I have hired-- though I will tell you, those I have hired seem to hold nothing back. Some work with me here at LifeWay, others are in the local church, and even others are scattered across the country and the world.
Fifth, the organization has to be willing to change. If the organization has been unhealthy, it's likely that everyone knows it (except those who profit by its lack of health). Leaders must be willing to ask hard questions. Unfortunately, hard questions usually come with even harder answers. Willingness to change is sometimes the hardest part, but it's also the most important and most rewarding.
I sincerely hope that some organizations and churches will change for the better-- both for their benefit and that of the kingdom. Perhaps in some small way this blog series will help. But, the reality is that most will not, and that's why my last post encouraged you to get out if you find yourself in this situation.
The funny thing about this blog is everyone knows that little Wayne reads it-he is too insure not too-hey little Wayne-we love you
They need to fire him and the elders
Transparency is never an issue unless you have something to hide.
Don't fire them, encourage them to keep talking. They are filling valdosta's church with great people-they work better than a "BLITZ." reference to John Yates article-"Homie what church do you Attend?"
Someone answer me a few questions:
Is it true that Sunday School ain't the place for theology. When lil' Wayne said that from the pulpit, I was floored. Man, gosh darn it. I ain't an educated man like Father Wayne and all, with his doctor degree and all, but I sure didn't know all that. All this time I thought that theology was the study of God. And I thought that we go to Sunday School to study about God? Well, lil' Wayne said that Sunday School was not the place to study theology. He said that if you want to study God/theology then you should go to seminary. Well if that is true, why don't they jus' fire ol' Johnboy, because all them lil' books he gets paid to write for Sunday School. They is all about God. Aint that sumthin? That Johnboy don't even know that he shouldn't be writing about God in them thar Sunday School booklet thingy's, cause they ain't getting read in seminary, they's getting read in the Sunday School that Wayne said was not the place to study God. Well, we forgive you Johnboy, you probably didn't go to that thar semitary like lil' Wayne did, and buy you one of them thar doctor degrees. You just a dunb youngin like the rest of us hicks. Boy, lil' Wayne sure musta been right when he said that he knows more about how to pastor a church than we do. Yassir ree bob!
Make sure you read both blogs about Chief Elder Wayne. www.thecultbuster.blogspot.com.
Just curious, anyone got any Bible for the position of Chief Elder? Other pastors are held accountable for studying and teaching and spending and telling the truth. Not Chief Elder Wayne, he gets a standing ovation and a new title (made up especially for him) and a SBC speaking gig so he can tell everyone that he is enduring persecution.
This whole thing has had one purpose. FACESAVING CAMPAIGN for Wayne and His Empire. It has had nothing to do with righteouness and obeying God. Don't be fooled! Whose Glory is it?
Romania's prime minister may have to resign due to plagiarism -some one needs to tell him the secret! Tell his countrymen he didn't know what plagiarism was it should work especially if most the people don't know what it is or can understand the concept-little Wayne can you make a call to Romania I am sure the church will pay for it-just put it in the account where you put your car washes . Little Wayne you talk like a conservative but live like a liberal.
Mother - "Son, the school called today and said that you failed your English writing assignment for committing plagiarism on your paper."
Son - "Yeah, so? Don't be persecuting me! I know more about being a student THAN YOU DO!"
Mother - "Son, when they questioned you, you told them that you only used a single sentence, but they found out that most all of your assignments have been plagiarized. Not only did you plagiarize, but you lied to cover it up"
Son - "Yes Ma'am, but they will try to put me out of school because they have a wicked and murderous heart. Besides, I know more about how to write a paper than THEY DO. In fact, my next paper is going to be on schools persecuting poor little innocent kiddies."
Mother - "Son, what in the world has happened to you to cause you to act like that? Where on Earth did you learn such wicked behavior of lying and cheating?"
Son - "From my pastor at the church you and dad take me to."
Here are some of his followers.
http://www.morningside.ws/sgbc3.htm
Pathetic!
Attention all Morningside Members...The Bible Conference is coming...Credit Card will be warn out...and it is your hard earned money...
To the one who left the content below within his quote;
"....I'm so greatful that I came to know Jesus before I met some of you.
and.... My name is not revealed because I am ashame of how you are talking and acting. Two wrongs don't make it right."
You make me sick! Do not come on here preaching to those that have an opinion against WRONG and who stand up for Christ kingdom while YOU protect men like Wayne Robertson and do not have or HOLD him accountable for HIS actions!
Back to your Sand Pile....
Al I have to say is.....
"To HELL with all those fake so called ministers who deceive like Wayne and his disciples"
You know who you are!
Why don't you and I take a look down the road. Let's go further than today and let's look at your arrival in heaven. When you first look into your Savior's face (taking a stretch here), and you say, "Hey Jesus", did you see what I did to MSBC? Yes sir..........I posted a website where I could blast'em good. I revealed stuff no one had a clue about. Yep sure did. I even heard that hundreds left the church and that people were crying all over the place. Even heard that hearts were broken. No...........I couldn't let that go and stay within the church..........I had to let the world know so that other souls could be effected by the family issue.
Jesus speaks and says....."Yes, I know exactly what you did". "You even caused souls to decide against churches, preachers and even my salvation." You came close to even being a god, by judging others and slandering my church". Why don't you have a seat here on My throne". Oh........but wait.........before you have a seat could I take a moment and look at your life?" After I look it over I'll be posting it for ALL THE WORLD to see and yes, they (the world) will be the judge of your life". Unfortunately for you, they did not die for your sins." After assessing your life, the world wants to tie a mill stone around your neck and cast you into the darkest seas". "Sorta sounds like something I wrote in my word, doesn't it"? "Wow, the world can really be harsh can't they?
I am not angry with you for what you have posted, more than that I hurt for you. You have set yourself up as a Judge, to judge and destroy God's man and His (Jesus) church. Do you realize what you are doing? If there is wrong being done............LET GOD TAKE CARE OF IT. It's NOT your place to handle this. I would be scared to death to say ANYTHING about any church in fear that by some minute chance God has His hand on that church, for fear of what eternity held in store for me. Be very careful what you say and what you do. Eternity is too long to be wrong.
If the membership wants to leave......................LEAVE QUIETLY.
This message was for you...............I really don't care if you post it or not. Just wanted to give you something to think about before you destroy yourself.
CULTBUSTER: Who died and gave YOU Lordship??? You must be feeling mighty powerful. Enjoy it while it lasts.
To the Morningside member above...Maybe you need to consider the possibility that God is using this sight...I tell you what i will have to answer for when I stand before God and that is not standing up to him and exposing him to the church when I was there..i assure you...he was confronted face to face!! ...sometimes we are only left to trusting in God when we stand up to men like these...trusting in God when Wayne and his regime threaten to sue you if you open your mouth...and I got to be honest...yes I am guilty of not having that kind of faith...So..this sight has been used to expose truth to you...and to the church...
And for your comment.."let God take care of it"
where was that attitude when your two ministers of Music were humiliated in front of your church and thrown out on there ears!!!
And as to the comment "No Clue"...let me tell you something...you are deceived...tell you what....Go up during the invitation and whisper in Waynes ear on Sunday ...ask him to tell you the truth!!
CULT
My question for all those who follow and protect these men and their CULTS?
Why just drink the Kool-Aid when you can swim in it?
Ya'll are sick!@
Hey I live out of town but heard a new wave of people are leaving MBCountry Club. I heard it is the hardcore kool aid sniffers-is it true? Any deep South reports?
If not, WHY NOT? It is amazing to me that anyone who is intelligent and who has a brain is still showing up and giving him their hard earned money.
Using someones else sermons and getting paid for it, what a religious racket.
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